The revolution is being televised, but media commentators who don't seem to understand what they're seeing are misinforming the public about basic facts of this week's protests, and why they matter.
All these groups were also the first to oppose the US war in Iraq and call George Bush a liar. Do you believe opposing the Iraq War was a communist conspiracy as well?
Hi, Garrett. I enjoyed your piece on Fred Hampton leftism. Thanks for commenting.
I think you're misunderstanding my article, however. It's a critique of media coverage that got some facts wrong and a description of what actually happened at the protests a week ago. There's no conspiracy, just different groups with different positions that I think journalists should describe accurately. No one can have a useful discussion about what's happening if the basic facts are being misrepresented.
PSL is one of the most active and influential Marxist groups right now, and led last Sunday's protest. The media should have noted that accurately instead of fixating on DSA, which was not really involved. (PSL's role was not the same during the Iraq War, btw, since the group was founded in 2004.)
If this is primarily about fact-checking, why do you claim that no journalists talked to Puryear, when a Politico article that you cite interviewed Puryear?
You're right: That article does mention ANSWER and Puryear near the end. However, what I wrote in my article is that I haven't seen anyone ask Puryear about this comments on the music festival attack, which are quoted above and which you can listen to in the video. I don't see that in the Politico article, and if it's somewhere else, I haven't seen it.
WWP and ANSWER were around in 2003 and most definitely helped found the anti-Iraq War movement. People leading PSL now were also involved, since, as you acknowledge, PSL is an offshoot.
And how is DSA less Marxist? Here is the DSA website commemorating an explicitly Marxist essay written by their founder -
Yes, they're both Marxist, which is something I covered in the article. However, I do think there are important differences between the groups, and one of those differences is how focused they are on bringing about a revolution. I'd say PSL and WWP are more focused on revolution and DSA is more focused on incremental changes to labor and social programs, even if they think that ideally it would be better to have a communist society.
I also don't see DSA endorsing armed struggle, which is something Marxist-Leninist organizations like WWP and PSL have always supported, to my knowledge. They have always been involved in protests against wars waged by the United States because they are anti-imperialists, not because they are pacifists or against war per se.
The way I have seen these differences playing out in the context of events in Israel is that PSL and WWP organized to celebrate the Hamas attack as an anti-imperialist military victory, while DSA did not do that but will organize to oppose an Israeli military action that affects civilians in Gaza.
As someone who witnessed both the Iraq War protests in New York and the recent protests here, I see the role of PSL in the recent protests as much more central than any Marxist group's role in the Iraq War protest movement. PSL has become a major force in the social justice movement, whereas during the Iraq War, groups like WWP were minor players. (ANSWER is more complicated to talk about, since they're a coalition that has evolved, but I would say they were a more important part of the Iraq War protest movement than any individual communist groups.)
I think the rise of PSL is noteworthy, just as any other influential political movement is noteworthy, and it's just weird to me that no one in the commentariat seems to have noticed it. I think it might just be that they're more connected to groups like DSA online, and that's where they're getting all their information about what's happening in the world. PSL is simply not on their social media radar, so they don't see it, even if that group is leading every social justice protest in town. This is why on-the-ground reporting is important.
The rank-and-file of DSA was recently a center of anti-Zionism up until this summer when the national offices, aligned with the Democratic National Committee machine, blacklisted the pro-Palestine movement. Even The Nation had to report on this. It goes way beyond the PSL -
Here is the Washington Post in 2002, acknowledging the role of the Workers World Party in organizing the demonstrations against the "War on Terror" and Bush's lies on Iraq -
Also confirms that WWP were working with former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark. And you're calling them marginal.
Was working to stop the Vietnam War and the Iraq War not part of "peace and anti-militarism" then?
Was Attorney General Clark secretly working for immediate insurrection and mass Red Terror on the streets of NYC? That sure seems to be what you're saying.
LOL, I have to thank you for the link. That Ramsey Clark was quite the colorful guy. Have you read the whole article?
But more to the point, the article describes WWP “as a tiny Marxist-Leninist sect” and “a communist fringe group that embraces North Korea.” That sounds about right to me. Even now, I don’t think WWP is very influential. They’ve always been involved in protest organizing, but as members of coalitions. They don’t bring out a sizable following on their own.
However, I do think PSL is influential. They lead many large social justice protests in New York and, judging by reporting I see from others, around the country. They led the October 8 rally and march celebrating the Hamas attack on Israel.
If you want to understand how PSL and aligned groups view the Hamas attack, you can watch their speakers in the video I included in my article, or you can read PSL’s statement here:
Their statement praises the Hamas attack as an act of resistance several times. For example: “The actions of the resistance over the course of the last day is a morally and legally legitimate response to occupation.” (the last day being October 7)
There really isn’t a lot of ambiguity about PSL’s position on this, and it is not a pacifist position.
The WWP had all the same positions, plus they had a relationship with a former cabinet member. And a track record of organizing landmark demonstrations across decades, noted by national publications. LOL and doubling down is not an reasonable response to my points.
Another thing I want to emphasize is that this article is about the rallies that took place in NYC on October 8 and 9 in support of the Hamas action on October 7. This article is not about any later rallies held to oppose the Israeli military response (which I fully expect DSA to be directly involved in). The October 8 and 9 rallies were celebrating the Hamas attack as a military victory for the resistance. They were not antiwar rallies.
If "antiwar" means total pacifism, then there has never been a mass antiwar movement anywhere.
Furthermore, I watched the first 5 minutes of the headline video, the last 5 minutes, and 5 minutes in the middle, around the 20 min mark. I saw no signs at all that mentioned Hamas or the October attack. If this was organized as a "pro-Hamas" rally, the Hamas messaging seems almost non-existent. This to me is a much more pressing issue of misrepresentation, which you are assisting in.
The video at the top shows the march. I would recommend listening to the speakers in the other video. They explicitly describe and applaud the Hamas attack.
All these groups were also the first to oppose the US war in Iraq and call George Bush a liar. Do you believe opposing the Iraq War was a communist conspiracy as well?
Hi, Garrett. I enjoyed your piece on Fred Hampton leftism. Thanks for commenting.
I think you're misunderstanding my article, however. It's a critique of media coverage that got some facts wrong and a description of what actually happened at the protests a week ago. There's no conspiracy, just different groups with different positions that I think journalists should describe accurately. No one can have a useful discussion about what's happening if the basic facts are being misrepresented.
PSL is one of the most active and influential Marxist groups right now, and led last Sunday's protest. The media should have noted that accurately instead of fixating on DSA, which was not really involved. (PSL's role was not the same during the Iraq War, btw, since the group was founded in 2004.)
If this is primarily about fact-checking, why do you claim that no journalists talked to Puryear, when a Politico article that you cite interviewed Puryear?
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/08/nyc-palestine-rally-democrats-israel-00120533
You're right: That article does mention ANSWER and Puryear near the end. However, what I wrote in my article is that I haven't seen anyone ask Puryear about this comments on the music festival attack, which are quoted above and which you can listen to in the video. I don't see that in the Politico article, and if it's somewhere else, I haven't seen it.
WWP and ANSWER were around in 2003 and most definitely helped found the anti-Iraq War movement. People leading PSL now were also involved, since, as you acknowledge, PSL is an offshoot.
And how is DSA less Marxist? Here is the DSA website commemorating an explicitly Marxist essay written by their founder -
https://socialistforum.dsausa.org/issues/fall-2021/marxism-and-democracy/
There is more than one school of Marxism, just as there is more than one school of Christianity, but both PSL and DSA are Marxist.
Yes, they're both Marxist, which is something I covered in the article. However, I do think there are important differences between the groups, and one of those differences is how focused they are on bringing about a revolution. I'd say PSL and WWP are more focused on revolution and DSA is more focused on incremental changes to labor and social programs, even if they think that ideally it would be better to have a communist society.
I also don't see DSA endorsing armed struggle, which is something Marxist-Leninist organizations like WWP and PSL have always supported, to my knowledge. They have always been involved in protests against wars waged by the United States because they are anti-imperialists, not because they are pacifists or against war per se.
The way I have seen these differences playing out in the context of events in Israel is that PSL and WWP organized to celebrate the Hamas attack as an anti-imperialist military victory, while DSA did not do that but will organize to oppose an Israeli military action that affects civilians in Gaza.
As someone who witnessed both the Iraq War protests in New York and the recent protests here, I see the role of PSL in the recent protests as much more central than any Marxist group's role in the Iraq War protest movement. PSL has become a major force in the social justice movement, whereas during the Iraq War, groups like WWP were minor players. (ANSWER is more complicated to talk about, since they're a coalition that has evolved, but I would say they were a more important part of the Iraq War protest movement than any individual communist groups.)
I think the rise of PSL is noteworthy, just as any other influential political movement is noteworthy, and it's just weird to me that no one in the commentariat seems to have noticed it. I think it might just be that they're more connected to groups like DSA online, and that's where they're getting all their information about what's happening in the world. PSL is simply not on their social media radar, so they don't see it, even if that group is leading every social justice protest in town. This is why on-the-ground reporting is important.
The rank-and-file of DSA was recently a center of anti-Zionism up until this summer when the national offices, aligned with the Democratic National Committee machine, blacklisted the pro-Palestine movement. Even The Nation had to report on this. It goes way beyond the PSL -
https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/dsa-palestine-bds-conflict/
Here is the Washington Post in 2002, acknowledging the role of the Workers World Party in organizing the demonstrations against the "War on Terror" and Bush's lies on Iraq -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2002/12/15/the-crusader/9de49dd7-43fd-45e0-a4ef-3df4475cb4a0/
Also confirms that WWP were working with former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark. And you're calling them marginal.
Was working to stop the Vietnam War and the Iraq War not part of "peace and anti-militarism" then?
Was Attorney General Clark secretly working for immediate insurrection and mass Red Terror on the streets of NYC? That sure seems to be what you're saying.
LOL, I have to thank you for the link. That Ramsey Clark was quite the colorful guy. Have you read the whole article?
But more to the point, the article describes WWP “as a tiny Marxist-Leninist sect” and “a communist fringe group that embraces North Korea.” That sounds about right to me. Even now, I don’t think WWP is very influential. They’ve always been involved in protest organizing, but as members of coalitions. They don’t bring out a sizable following on their own.
However, I do think PSL is influential. They lead many large social justice protests in New York and, judging by reporting I see from others, around the country. They led the October 8 rally and march celebrating the Hamas attack on Israel.
If you want to understand how PSL and aligned groups view the Hamas attack, you can watch their speakers in the video I included in my article, or you can read PSL’s statement here:
https://www.liberationnews.org/psl-statement-free-palestine-free-all-palestinian-political-prisoners-end-all-u-s-aid-to-the-israeli-apartheid-regime/
Their statement praises the Hamas attack as an act of resistance several times. For example: “The actions of the resistance over the course of the last day is a morally and legally legitimate response to occupation.” (the last day being October 7)
There really isn’t a lot of ambiguity about PSL’s position on this, and it is not a pacifist position.
The WWP had all the same positions, plus they had a relationship with a former cabinet member. And a track record of organizing landmark demonstrations across decades, noted by national publications. LOL and doubling down is not an reasonable response to my points.
Another thing I want to emphasize is that this article is about the rallies that took place in NYC on October 8 and 9 in support of the Hamas action on October 7. This article is not about any later rallies held to oppose the Israeli military response (which I fully expect DSA to be directly involved in). The October 8 and 9 rallies were celebrating the Hamas attack as a military victory for the resistance. They were not antiwar rallies.
If "antiwar" means total pacifism, then there has never been a mass antiwar movement anywhere.
Furthermore, I watched the first 5 minutes of the headline video, the last 5 minutes, and 5 minutes in the middle, around the 20 min mark. I saw no signs at all that mentioned Hamas or the October attack. If this was organized as a "pro-Hamas" rally, the Hamas messaging seems almost non-existent. This to me is a much more pressing issue of misrepresentation, which you are assisting in.
The video at the top shows the march. I would recommend listening to the speakers in the other video. They explicitly describe and applaud the Hamas attack.
DEPORT ALL OF THE COMMIES TO PALESTINE!